Category: 
Monday, 3 March 2008 @ 4:01 pm (Chris Frost)Next Affiliate Programme
You will not silence me!
… A bit of history
The Next Affiliate Programme joined Affiliate Window and at the time I thought what a great programme, managed by a great agency (MVi) available on a great network (AWin). Sadly, it didn’t perform as well as I had hoped, but still managed to push close to £250,000 sales their way last year. It was one of those programmes that ticked over by itself I guess.
… Where they went wrong
Sadly for Next, things started to go wrong the minute they were nominated (and went on to win) the 2007 Best New Merchant, and some affiliates have questioned whether their award should be revoked! That’s how strong the feeling is in the Affiliate Community towards this merchant. Sadly Next have their head buried in the sand as are not open to any constructive critisim and never discuss their programme. They obviously think they are too big to engage with affiliates!
Don’t get me wrong, the Affiliate Marketing industry is one I love, find challenging and have made some very good friends from all sides, merchants, affiliates, agencies and networks. However I feel that merchants such as Next don’t bring anything good to the table, and are only to happy to abuse the industry and those involved in it.
… Oblivious and in denial
If Next actually cared about their affiliate programme, or if the agency or networks promoting them had the balls to stand up to a big brand and educate them, then they would soon realise why there is so much ill feeling. For a network or agency to add Next to their books doesn’t impress me at all, as I dont see any contribution they have made over the past year worth noting. With their attitude to affiliates in the future (see below) I am not convinced that they are even willing to learn by their mistakes - yet they wanted to wipe the slate clean! Lets have a quick look at their achievemtns to date in the affiliate marketing industry;
In Summary;
- Next dropped commissions just in time for Christmas (see here)
- They moved from a perfectly good, proactive, agency and network citing they wished to “clear the slate” (see here)
- There was nothing wrong from an affiliate POV, with the agency or network involved at the time. If Next wanted to clear the slate, then they should have started in-house and not laid blame at other peoples doorsteps!
- Next bid on trademarks of their competitors (see here)
- Next do not honour their 7 day cookie upon transfer of network (see here)
… New developments
Over the weekend I applied to join Next via the Buy.At network. Why? Well because I have some good SEO’d pages out there in the wild, and I guessed it would be best to make use of them. Upon applying, I received an email from Buy.At asking me to complete an “Affiliate Application” form. It was sent under the pretense that Next want to ”get a better understanding of their affiliate base”! Sorry, but anyone falling for this bullshit is in LaLa land! Next don’t give a toss about their affiliates, they simply want to clamp down on anyone who has anything bad to say about them, any gripes or groans, or they just want an alternative way to screw affiliates even more!
Do you have a blog?
Do you PPC or SEO?
Do you own a voucher code website?
What business is it of Nexts whether I have a blog, whether I SEO or PPC my websites or whether I have a discount code website? They should only concern themselves with the website where I promote them to ensure I do not break any guidelines.
I replied to Buy.At that if they wanted me to answer their questionnaire then I would request that Next answered my own set of questions, to determine whether they were a merchant I wanted to associate myself and my websites with. Remember a partnership is a two way agreement. I stated that in my questionnaire I would be asking about the future of commission levels, the bidding on other merchants trademarks etc. I presume from the response, Next wouldn’t complete my questionnaire;
“I appreciate that you have had issues with Next in the past and have been quite vocal in your thoughts regarding their programmes. In light of this Next has decided that they would prefer not to work with you moving forward, particularly after your last blog entry.”
- presume you mean this blog entry, where I question their failure to honour sales within a cookie period, that in my eyes, amounts to theft!
OK, so to become an affiliate of Next you must NOT question their ethics, their business model or lack of morals. If you want to become a Next affiliate, you have to accept their decisions, conform to them, and never question anything. Basically become a nodding dog?
Sadly there are many nodding dogs out there in the Affiliate Marketing industry from all areas but I aint one. Some people will stoop to any level, given a back-hander or a favour and that leads me to question the future of this industry. Is it one I really want to be part of, yet continue to be disillusioned by?
Sadly I haven’t seen anything that Next have brought to this industry that they can hold their heads up high an be proud of. They have simply taken from affiliates, messed them around with changes in agencies, networks and commission structures and let them down by not honouring 7 cookie periods.
I sincerely hope this is a one off and no other merchants go down this route. In-fact Next could be held up as the prime example of how NOT to run an affiliate programme! I also hope in future, networks tell merchants who operate like this to sling their hook rather than focus on the £/$ a programme of this nature could generate for them. Get some balls!
Update
Just wanted to say thanks to everyones support on this. It’s a real eye opener to the numbers who are upset and dismayed at the Next affiliate programme, and their bully tactics. Sadly for Next the number of people who are pulling away from their programme as a result of this, is phenomenal. No affiliates want this to be seen by merchants as acceptable and I think if it’s allowed to continue, it could be a very bad precedent that’s set.
Popularity: 44% [?]
Horaayy..there are 31 comment(s) for me so far ;)
Really - you couldn’t make this up could you - will someone take the bloody shovel off them
Good for you for standing by your views and being able to curb the swear words!
I’ve just deleted Next from DCTV and haven’t bothered applying for their program elsewhere.
That’s shocking, is this an agency or an in-house decision Chris?
I’m doing a talk about ‘What Affiliates Want’ to some merchants tomorrow.
I think I’ll just pass round this post and tell them all to do the opposite. Job done!
Gadget
- Sorry one swear word crept in there…. not bad considering…
Matthew
- The email came from Buy.At however I would like to point out that AFAIK it is NOT their decision. No idea if it was made at merchant or agency level, but in the same email Buy.At commented;
“I hope you appreciate this bears no reflection on our attitude as a network to working with you in general.”
Steve
- Yeah it is pretty much a lessons of what not to do!
hmm guess I’ll be off the next xmas card list too then.
I personally can’t think of a bigger cluster feck of a program for years.. maybe even since the barclaycard pixel tracking error and subsequent bullsh** monsoon that initiated from them.
If Next don’t want £250k in sales as they’d only like a$$ kissers pushing what they are given then they’ll be welcome to it I guess mate, I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it, 250k in sales would have made you £5k !?
I’ve always thought it was a joke personally, 2% commission on some of their range is a complete insult in fact and not worthy of a laugh at all, it’s Next who must be laughing hardest.
The real affiliates who have the cajones and conviction to stand up and call out when something isn’t quite right will lose out yet again whilst the a$$ kissers who keep quiet and mumble will benefit.
I didn’t realise the industry was turning into a “you can only push us if you say we are great” type environment, although saying that PR management does seem to be on the increase.
The reason affiliates complain on the whole is due to the fact they are unhappy with how things are and are basically saying if you change x or x then we’ll be happy to push you harder, is a win-win situation IF the merchant LISTENS
If next have no intention of meeting affiliates half way then I guess we’ll see more of this attitude from them.
In my opinion they’ve been taking us all for a ride for far too long as it is with paltry commissions and treating affiliate marketing with evident contempt.
It is their right to choose who can push them just as we can choose who we push but if they will not listen to negative points of view about their program then they will only have themselves to blame in the long run when it bites them in the butt.
2% on a £450 coffee table is £9.. and that wouldn’t make me feel valued enough to push anything never mind any 7 day cookie shenanigans..
I’ll not waste my time applying on buy.aol
Two of the questions they ask are:
[quote]Do you have a blog? Please give the url
Do you have an A4U log in? Please give your username[/quote]
LMAO??
[quote]”I like how all the questions seem really innocent, like they just want to know so they can figure out who you are,cleverly disguising the fact that it’s all big brother inqusition tactics”[/quote]
Let’s not forget the network(s) for even allowing this has to come under scrutiny too. Not just the agency & merchant.
This is getting more and more unbeliveable - next have now turned their noses up at around £500000 of business from just two affiliates Chris and Elaine. They obviously do not care one jot that these two and many others put considerable work into their sites promoting Next only to be rewarded by pay cuts at the busiest time of the year, poor communication, underhand tactics and what is tantamount to theft by not honouring the 7 day cookie period.
To now take their bat home and say if you do not like it when we treat you like this then we will stop you from promoting us is an unbelievable way for a multi national company to behave.
“To now take their bat home and say if you do not like it when we treat you like this then we will stop you from promoting us is an unbelievable way for a multi national company to behave.”
It could also be a blessing in disguise. I am hoping that other merchants will see Next as how NOT to run an affiliate programme, and will stop other merchants heading down the same route.
As far as I am concerned, they can stick their bat where the sun don’t shine
So come on then boys and girls at buy.at was this just a nice one to have on the list for the sale?
http://www.affiliates4u.com/forums/affiliate-marketing-lounge/74618-arrogance-merchants.html
Doug
I dread to think what Mountain Warehouse did to you for Next to only be second bottom in the traffic light situation!
ok, devil’s advocate - again. Considering all the comments you’ve made about them and that nagging feeling you had about them, why exactly did you bother trying to continue promoting them? Leaving aside the “had some nicely SEO-ed pages up and would be a shame to let them go”
Sorry, but I fail to understand: they screwed you over once and you come back for more?
Hero
I think you have got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn’t planning on pushing the Next programme, however the saying “Money for old rope” should explain precisely why I applied.
I don’t think you can leave aside the “had some nicely SEO-ed pages up and would be a shame to let them go” comment and then go on to ask me why I would want to promote them. The fact that I have pages that generate sales without any need to push the programme, is the whole reason behind me applying for the programme on the new networks. By leaving that comment out, there would be no argument.
I think this post also serves as a catalog of errors made by Next, and demonstrates as someone put it in the A4U Forum, bullying tactics. The fact that they haven’t honoured the 7 day cookie period via Awin referrals, in my opinion, amounts to gaining sales without honouring their commitment to pay affiliates.
It’s about time that merchants like this, who abuse the industry, are shown the door by networks no matter how big the brand name is. Just by looking at the comments and the backings this post has recived, both numbers (36) and names and the representation across agency, network, affiliate and merchants, of all hierarchical levels, shows that this is a general feeling of those in the industry.
The comments and backings haven’t come from new, thin, fresh faced affiliates obilivious to the business, so I think that says a lot in itself.
Next? TAXI!! Jeezo Chris, that’s absolutely unbelievable.
How did these jokers ever win the best new affiliate programme of the year? I’ve never really understood who voted for them anyway.
“How did these jokers ever win the best new affiliate programme of the year? I’ve never really understood who voted for them anyway.”
next won as they were voted by affiliates through a closely controlled publishers choice vote.
I was very surprised, but I double checked the votes personally and they were legitimately winners.
I must say the programme was a different and more acceptable offering, run by a different network and agency.
Its now turned into a complete embarrassing farce.
haven’t got the wrong end of the stick and i’m not advocating how Next have been bahaving. However, I point out the obvious - they screwed you up and you went back for more. I’m sorry, but when I see affiliates being treated like this and they continue promoting the merchant, I say you’ve no one to blame after that. Same way we will see shed loads of affiliates jumping for joy if ASOS decide to come back, cause they have all those pages which will be a shame to let go.
They never valued you, why did you feel the need to continue sending -effortless, ok, I’ll give you that- traffic to them? I don’t get that, I really don’t. Not specific to you, but for all those affiliates doing the same.
Hero
“i’m not advocating how Next have been bahaving”
I’m extremely glad you’ve made that point as I did start to wonder where your argument was coming from. You can’t ask why I chose to apply for a programme, when at the same time, you want to set aside my initial reason for applying
Affiliates are and will continue to be a different breed. I made my decision not to promote them but to use them. There is a HUGE difference here. Anyway, I dont want this thread to become specific to the why’s and where’s, I as an individual made my decision and again will sum it up in “Money for old rope”.
Kirsty
“How did these jokers ever win the best new affiliate programme of the year?”
Yeah is a bit crazy, but hindsight is great isn’t it! As Matt has said, they were voted when they were new to the industry by affiliates, and when commission levels were acceptable. Since then there has been nothing but problems and if the reward was to be revoked I think it wouldn’t put A4U in good light in the future. One thing is for sure, they wont be winning any more awards in a hurry
ba ba baaa bahaving?
No, behaving…
we’re on the same side, Chris, let’s not argue amongst us
I take too high a moral ground sometimes, which makes me less realistic. But, how’s that proverb? Do it once, you’re a fool - do it twice, what does that make you? :-p
Hi Hero,
Or as George Bush says:
“Fool me once…shame on…shame on you. Fool me twice….can’t get fooled again”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1987104025700373400
Hero
I believe the full proverb is;
“Do it once, you’re a fool - do it twice, you an affiliate”
Luckily Next stopped me from making the same mistake again so maybe I actually owe them my thanks
Adam
That clip is classic. I’m on a mission now to find more Bush’isms
Blimey, perfect material for my “how not to run an affiliate programme” talk.
This is totally crazy, and judging by “I hope you appreciate this bears no reflection on our attitude as a network to working with you in general.”, it probably was just a big name for the sale.
Affiliate marketing is based upon the relationships you keep… I am astounded by the policy of Next and how their misguided decisions.
There has clearly been no discussions, meetings with affiliates about how to best resolve any issues to meet their objectives/expectations – surely in this day and age every affiliate program worth their salt should be in touch with their base to communicate!
The rise and fall of this program is amazing and I feel more should be done by the networks to offer guidance during their pre-sale and also post-sale.
I am sure this is one that the industry will all remember for some time and to turn this around will take one hell of an affiliate manager!!
Chris I am sure you’ll keep us all updated and I’ll surely be watching this…
Learning lessons from the past, the hard way…
This is the conclusion I have come to. The big Brands at the moment hold the power to makes significant changes to our industry. This is what I learnt.
Affiliates will say they will take down links and be vocally supportive, in reality if affiliates are still making commissions, then… they will not take their links down.
Ill keep my personal opinion to myself on the rights and wrongs of this. I always believed actions speak louder then words.
I have learnt that simply removing links and moving on speaks bigger and greater volumes then publicly condemning. I have come to the conclusion that for big high street brands, affiliate marketing will always have varying degrees of conflict. A lot of the problems will stem from the fact, some times affiliates know more about online consumer behaviour, traffic aggregation and better understanding of organic search, paid search and all the clever routes to acquiring and reminding customers to come back then the merchant. I doubt is there is anyone that could contradict that.
My tact would be a gentle nudge to the powers that be at Next to seek advice from their networks that they are partnered with. The margins are there for better commissions, the network tools are there to protect their brand and to start looking at affiliates as partners rather then as a necessary evil. Next is a great brand and have products to die for and conversions are good. It is possible that maybe affiliate marketing is not right for them, it happens and we have to accept that. But we don’t have all the facts, we don’t know who, what, when and why. Of course Ill support this… but I have to wonder if this does not send people running in the opposite direction?
The message to Next would you rather pay 3.5k (ex VAT) per affiliate x 100 per month tenancy? No guarantees
Or would you rather pay 5% based on a basket transaction, acquire new customer (what’s the life time value of a next customer).
I know what I would chose, simply because I know all those great websites (glossy ones) that charge 15p + per click and wont convert. Can you afford to take those risks? Affiliate marketing minimises that risk and you get some of the best marketing talent you could ever have dreamt of :0)
Jess
“My tact would be a gentle nudge to the powers that be at Next to seek advice from their networks that they are partnered with.”
I’m still not convinced its the networks job to be honest. I would have thought that this is the role of the agency? Surely they are there to advise or manage a programme? If not then, what exactly is the role of an agency?
As I said on the forum, I’m not convinced shooting the messenger (Buy.at in this instance) is correct.
Fostie hun… Agency now they are a whole other debate and I do believe You have to ask your self, who taught them about online marketing, is it worth tracking that person down and and ask, what chapters of the book in “marketing for dummies” did you miss?
I do think the role of the network is to advise, it must be, has to be for quality control reasons if nothing else. Knowing awin its probably what they did anyway.
You got to admire the network that tells a brand to take a walk
It would appear that some people have too much time on their hands.
If you cant make it work. Get out.
Lowering commission rates is always a bitter pill to swallow but it is made to ensure that it can be profitable.
The agency that assist Next (post MVI) are Ilevel. They have built the program to what it is today and from what i hear, it is doing brilliant. Good on Fiona!
The issues:
They lowered commission - their decision, a business decision. Accept it or move on.
They didnt honor 7 day cookie after the end of the campaign - change your links early then. Move to Buy.at - doh!
There is a form to fill in - So what? As a supplier to an organisation, you need to have forms and paper trails. Simple.
They changed networks - they were pitched to by all the networks.
Brand bidding - we all know it is done. But Google can be a pain.
They don’t discuss in forums - have you seen what you lot are saying! They try to make amends and you go for the throat.
It looks to me that there are sour grapes (networks, agencies and affiliates), miscommunication (client, networks, agencies and affiliates) and some ill feeling. (networks, agencies and affiliates). Let’s put a stop to all this bickering and either get on with our day jobs or get a life.
If a business wants to have an affiliate program they will do so at a profitable level. They are doing so. If you cannot stand the rules. Dont promote them Simple as. If we continue to throw stones, accuse them of stuff, and generally bicker on the net - who are we making a fool of???? If we want to discuss the issue, call them! dont shout about it in the street.
Chris Wright
Hi Chris
With a comment this long, I agree, it does appear some people have too much time on their hands! I guess what it does show, is passion for the industry. If you think this is wrong, then maybe it’s not the right one for you?
I am not sure where you are hearing the the programme is doing great nor what great building has been done… oh how ignorance is bliss!
This blog post received over 100 backs on the A4U forums, by agencies, fellow affiliates, merchants and networks. Seriously this should be taken very seriously. Also, if you take the time to follow the forums, you will soon realise its a slightly bigger issue than a single affiliate with a gripe.
As for paper forms for trails - again I am confused here. You are obviously involved in the industry Chris, so you should know its not need for “paper trails. Simple”. If it is, then maybe explain as to why I don’t need to complete forms for 1000 other merchants?
I simply have the balls to stand up and say what I see, and as it transpires, others feel.
In response to “If we continue to throw stones, accuse them of stuff, and generally bicker on the net - who are we making a fool of?” I ask you;
If we roll over and accept this as a way a programme should be run, who are we making a fool of?
Thanks for your input
Hi Chris (Frost),
Colin here, Affiliate Director @ R.O.EYE. I hope that all is well.
A person called Chris Wright worked for our company a year ago and no longer works for us. As far as I know, he no longer works in the industry. I obviously want to make it 100% clear that this is not an employee of R.O.EYE and none of the views expressed by this person are connected to R.O.EYE in anyway whatsoever.
So please do not be concerned that this is R.O.EYE’s official stance.
We have been keeping a very close eye on developments and learning a lot from this and the comments from all parties to benefit the development of the programmes that we successfully manage.
Keep up the good work.
(Chris Wright from above - verification on this issue would be appreciated. Thanks to everyone who pointed this error out to us.)
BTW, sorry - can’t do Hatton, on my holidays! Enjoy though..
Col.
Col
Bad news about the Hatton fight, but already there is talk about (if he wins) his next fight being in New York! So get saving.
I appreciate you coming along and clearing this up from an ROEye perspective and have edited the comment in question. Apologies for this.
Well i used to work for Next, if u think their affiliate program is a shambles, their behind the scenes shop methods are a ****** disgrace. Their payroll team are ****** baboons.
Take this, they have an overpayments department for wages, just shows u how many ****ups they make.